I love this line: "when it comes to understanding what AI actually does to learning, students are the experts. And at 65%, they’re telling us the problem is bigger than the adults realize."
Lifting up student voice in this conversation is so important-- thank you for doing so.
Thanks, Ruth. I've honestly been surprised at how little coverage the report has gotten. I sense that few people really read past the executive summary. It's got a lot of really good nuggets but that disparity in risk analysis jumped out at me - kids know what's happening but of course many will use AI regardless because it is designed to do exactly what most assignments ask for - a final output to be checked off. But there are a lot of good examples of ways both teachers and students are using it productively that often gets overlooked, especially the international voices. In any case, I thought it worth discussing.
I’ve been told by AP students that learning isn’t the point; a high GPA is. When I ask students, “What is school for?,” the most common response is “To get a good job.” I’m hardly a Marxist, but if the only purpose of education is viewed—by all “stakeholders,” to use that insulting parlance—as churning out producers of capital, then we have lost the thread on AI before the question is even asked.
I read the entire report fairly carefully - there is a lot of interesting and more nuanced stuff that does not get reported on much, but the overriding takeaway is clear. The issue for me is that ignoring what's happening, which seems to be a strategy of many educators I've spoken with, is not a long term solution. It's only going to get worse I fear so I found the recommendations wanting and not sufficiently urgent enough.
It wasn't so much that they were obvious but, from my perspective (and I'm always interested what others are seeing because, while have a lot of contacts outside my school due to a broad range of extracurricular commitments, I have been at the same place for 30 years) despite the obviousness of what needs to be done, I've seen very little movement. I've been in contact and speaking with a number of teachers from around the country trying to find out more. And yes, I've been writing and reading a lot about the issue for the past year especially.
Liz and Stephen, would you like to do a podcast? I could moderate, but we could all discuss the report? We could post on our respective channels? My email: spincutler@gmail.com
I just joined Substack and your take Stephen on the Brookings report was a great first read - thank you! Clearly preaching to the choir here, but YES, the problem with adults advocating to train students to use AI “effectively” is that this stance ignores that young people are not mini-adults: students need help building a firm foundation first. Great also to see an acknowledgement that the gains promised by AI in the classroom are theoretical, but the harms are real and already here.
I really appreciated this recap, but I have to disagree here: "But when it comes to understanding what AI actually does to learning, students are the experts." No, a 12 year old is not, in fact, an expert on what AI does to learning. They have been thrown into a pool with a life preserver in the middle but without having first learned to swim, so they doggy paddle to their safety device. We simply do not have have any valid long-term research on the impacts that AI has on youth learning. It may feel like a lifetime ago, but ChatGPT really only emerged onto the scene in earnest in November 2022. The truth is we are all treading water and watching who drowns, who clings to the coping, and who finds their way, however haphazardly, to the life preserver.
Point taken. I think I was extrapolating from the report - it was striking to me that a much higher percentage of kids understood where AI was impacting them. This is my experience with talking with my high school students as well.
Wow you reacted quickly! I haven't had the courage to go through the entire thing when I got word of it, I explored it with my AI and I was very pleased with what I saw for the same reason you are detailing, it was confirming what I have been seeing and thinking and providing much needed backing. It turns out this report is also where I got my first formal citation! pages 123 & 142
I did read the entire thing - the infographics are useful though you have to look carefully as some are based on very small sample sizes. And I thought I saw your work cited! I'm going to put you in touch with another STEM teacher who reached out to me - you might have some good conversations.
Thanks for this overview and reaction to the report! It intrigued me and made me want to read the original.
A couple of thoughts in response. You write, “The problem is that schools keep assigning tasks students would rather offload, and we've given them no compelling reason to do otherwise.” In one sense, I agree. Descriptively, schools are giving students assignments they would rather not do.
At the same time giving students work that they would rather not do should not be a problem. Thinking, learning, articulating is hard work—who likes to do it, especially if there is not some immediate, tangible, valuable reward? Schools cannot provide this kind of reward in most subjects. Learning French is hard work. Understanding the cause and consequences of the great migration to the American north is hard work. Grasping the rights and responsibilities embedded in the constitution is hard work. Reading a sophisticated novel and reflecting upon its meaning is hard work. None of the above activities can compete with passively watching a show, playing Call of Duty or gossiping with friends. But they are all worthwhile formative activities. Even if students feel the siren’s call to academic exploration while the sun is up, by sundown the earwax of fatigue makes their song grow dim. And, they easily turn to more immediate pleasures.
And, I understand their situation even if I think they need to persevere. I was a very inquisitive student and hunger to learn, but the body has its limits.
Another problem is that student lives are so over-scheduled that they leave themselves little time or energy for academic work even if they have the desire.
It’s also not surprising that they don’t want to do the cogitation that teachers invite them to do because students don’t really know what’s important. Part of an education is developing a mind so that one can have a better grasp of one’s ignorance as well as developing a mind that can appreciate what’s worth knowing. To make matters worse, students are so often walking embodiments of the Dunning-Krueger effect, making it all the more difficult to encourage them to do challenging work. Mark Twain captured this problem when he said something to the effect of “At 16 I thought my father a moron; by the time I was twenty, I wondered how he learned so much.”
Teachers will always give students work they do not want to do and there is no way around it.
My second comment was that I use AI as an English teacher. I experimented with grading, thinking that I could provide faster feedback and that we could discuss areas for growth while the paper was fresh in the mind, but the process was quite cumbersome, and the results were wildly inconsistent.
I use AI for help with generating multiple choice tests. It’s not perfect, and the results need careful screening and modification, but it can reduce a four hour process into one.
I also find AI useful in quickly generating scenarios. I want student to engage the moral and social problems raised by the stories we read and setting up discussions with anticipatory scenarios can be helpful. They can also be helpful in teasing out dimensions and subtleties in dilemmas to help students see the complexity of what appears simple.
I used it today to identify a handful of sayings on a theme from Confucius’ Analects that I want to integrate in our discussion of “Journey to the West.” I still have to check if the quotes are legitimate, but if so, AI saved me a lot of time.
Finally, as a yearbook adviser it’s a lifesaver when we need to rearrange or reformat rosters sent to my team in every conceivable file type. : )
Thank you for this Jean, especially your second paragraph. I am exasperated with the constant message that students wouldn’t use AI if we gave them “authentic” and “meaningful” assignments. Learning is hard work, and other pleasures will always tempt us — students and adults.
I agree - it's hard to create an assessment that is entirely AI proof. Where I've landed now is being fully transparent and honest. Also, focusing more on process activities than final outputs. Yes, learning is hard work and for students willing to do it, as has always been the case, will be the ones who will excel.
I've gone back to school for teaching after years of working as a para. I'm astounded at how many professors are assigning projects around integrating AI into the classroom for both teacher and student use. I can't help but feel frustrated that time and energy that could be spent digging more into DAPs, pedagogy, or classroom management skills are instead going to planning out AI use. I don't know how much of this is pressure from the dept. head or the college admin, but it sure feels gimmicky in practice.
“The problem is that schools keep assigning tasks students would rather offload, and we've given them no compelling reason to do otherwise.” I’m sure that very many students would like to outsource much of the schoolWORK! which teachers set. Yes, it is work. Time to regain some reality about what schools are for… and to return to teaching foundational knowledge in as interesting and effective way as possible.
I love this line: "when it comes to understanding what AI actually does to learning, students are the experts. And at 65%, they’re telling us the problem is bigger than the adults realize."
Lifting up student voice in this conversation is so important-- thank you for doing so.
Thanks, Ruth. I've honestly been surprised at how little coverage the report has gotten. I sense that few people really read past the executive summary. It's got a lot of really good nuggets but that disparity in risk analysis jumped out at me - kids know what's happening but of course many will use AI regardless because it is designed to do exactly what most assignments ask for - a final output to be checked off. But there are a lot of good examples of ways both teachers and students are using it productively that often gets overlooked, especially the international voices. In any case, I thought it worth discussing.
I’ve been told by AP students that learning isn’t the point; a high GPA is. When I ask students, “What is school for?,” the most common response is “To get a good job.” I’m hardly a Marxist, but if the only purpose of education is viewed—by all “stakeholders,” to use that insulting parlance—as churning out producers of capital, then we have lost the thread on AI before the question is even asked.
Stephen,
We are in alignment in some respects, but differ on others. As a current classroom teacher, here is my take: (https://medium.com/teachers-on-fire/no-duh-countless-teachers-like-me-have-long-known-the-ai-risks-brookings-just-discovered-f8b21d48cabf). I'd love to do a podcast with you!
I read the entire report fairly carefully - there is a lot of interesting and more nuanced stuff that does not get reported on much, but the overriding takeaway is clear. The issue for me is that ignoring what's happening, which seems to be a strategy of many educators I've spoken with, is not a long term solution. It's only going to get worse I fear so I found the recommendations wanting and not sufficiently urgent enough.
We agree here; I also found the recommendations extremely obvious to anybody who has been in the classroom for any serious amount of time.
It wasn't so much that they were obvious but, from my perspective (and I'm always interested what others are seeing because, while have a lot of contacts outside my school due to a broad range of extracurricular commitments, I have been at the same place for 30 years) despite the obviousness of what needs to be done, I've seen very little movement. I've been in contact and speaking with a number of teachers from around the country trying to find out more. And yes, I've been writing and reading a lot about the issue for the past year especially.
I agree with you, David. I've also been warning about this for years but no one's been listening to the teachers on the front lines of this every day.
Liz and Stephen, would you like to do a podcast? I could moderate, but we could all discuss the report? We could post on our respective channels? My email: spincutler@gmail.com
Let me know!
I just joined Substack and your take Stephen on the Brookings report was a great first read - thank you! Clearly preaching to the choir here, but YES, the problem with adults advocating to train students to use AI “effectively” is that this stance ignores that young people are not mini-adults: students need help building a firm foundation first. Great also to see an acknowledgement that the gains promised by AI in the classroom are theoretical, but the harms are real and already here.
Thx. The report is illuminating for anyone who is interested in this topic.
I really appreciated this recap, but I have to disagree here: "But when it comes to understanding what AI actually does to learning, students are the experts." No, a 12 year old is not, in fact, an expert on what AI does to learning. They have been thrown into a pool with a life preserver in the middle but without having first learned to swim, so they doggy paddle to their safety device. We simply do not have have any valid long-term research on the impacts that AI has on youth learning. It may feel like a lifetime ago, but ChatGPT really only emerged onto the scene in earnest in November 2022. The truth is we are all treading water and watching who drowns, who clings to the coping, and who finds their way, however haphazardly, to the life preserver.
Point taken. I think I was extrapolating from the report - it was striking to me that a much higher percentage of kids understood where AI was impacting them. This is my experience with talking with my high school students as well.
Wow you reacted quickly! I haven't had the courage to go through the entire thing when I got word of it, I explored it with my AI and I was very pleased with what I saw for the same reason you are detailing, it was confirming what I have been seeing and thinking and providing much needed backing. It turns out this report is also where I got my first formal citation! pages 123 & 142
I did read the entire thing - the infographics are useful though you have to look carefully as some are based on very small sample sizes. And I thought I saw your work cited! I'm going to put you in touch with another STEM teacher who reached out to me - you might have some good conversations.
Thanks for this overview and reaction to the report! It intrigued me and made me want to read the original.
A couple of thoughts in response. You write, “The problem is that schools keep assigning tasks students would rather offload, and we've given them no compelling reason to do otherwise.” In one sense, I agree. Descriptively, schools are giving students assignments they would rather not do.
At the same time giving students work that they would rather not do should not be a problem. Thinking, learning, articulating is hard work—who likes to do it, especially if there is not some immediate, tangible, valuable reward? Schools cannot provide this kind of reward in most subjects. Learning French is hard work. Understanding the cause and consequences of the great migration to the American north is hard work. Grasping the rights and responsibilities embedded in the constitution is hard work. Reading a sophisticated novel and reflecting upon its meaning is hard work. None of the above activities can compete with passively watching a show, playing Call of Duty or gossiping with friends. But they are all worthwhile formative activities. Even if students feel the siren’s call to academic exploration while the sun is up, by sundown the earwax of fatigue makes their song grow dim. And, they easily turn to more immediate pleasures.
And, I understand their situation even if I think they need to persevere. I was a very inquisitive student and hunger to learn, but the body has its limits.
Another problem is that student lives are so over-scheduled that they leave themselves little time or energy for academic work even if they have the desire.
It’s also not surprising that they don’t want to do the cogitation that teachers invite them to do because students don’t really know what’s important. Part of an education is developing a mind so that one can have a better grasp of one’s ignorance as well as developing a mind that can appreciate what’s worth knowing. To make matters worse, students are so often walking embodiments of the Dunning-Krueger effect, making it all the more difficult to encourage them to do challenging work. Mark Twain captured this problem when he said something to the effect of “At 16 I thought my father a moron; by the time I was twenty, I wondered how he learned so much.”
Teachers will always give students work they do not want to do and there is no way around it.
My second comment was that I use AI as an English teacher. I experimented with grading, thinking that I could provide faster feedback and that we could discuss areas for growth while the paper was fresh in the mind, but the process was quite cumbersome, and the results were wildly inconsistent.
I use AI for help with generating multiple choice tests. It’s not perfect, and the results need careful screening and modification, but it can reduce a four hour process into one.
I also find AI useful in quickly generating scenarios. I want student to engage the moral and social problems raised by the stories we read and setting up discussions with anticipatory scenarios can be helpful. They can also be helpful in teasing out dimensions and subtleties in dilemmas to help students see the complexity of what appears simple.
I used it today to identify a handful of sayings on a theme from Confucius’ Analects that I want to integrate in our discussion of “Journey to the West.” I still have to check if the quotes are legitimate, but if so, AI saved me a lot of time.
Finally, as a yearbook adviser it’s a lifesaver when we need to rearrange or reformat rosters sent to my team in every conceivable file type. : )
Thank you for this Jean, especially your second paragraph. I am exasperated with the constant message that students wouldn’t use AI if we gave them “authentic” and “meaningful” assignments. Learning is hard work, and other pleasures will always tempt us — students and adults.
My college students
My college students reflect the 65% risk assessment; they know it’s bad for them. But they struggle not to use it.
I agree - it's hard to create an assessment that is entirely AI proof. Where I've landed now is being fully transparent and honest. Also, focusing more on process activities than final outputs. Yes, learning is hard work and for students willing to do it, as has always been the case, will be the ones who will excel.
I've gone back to school for teaching after years of working as a para. I'm astounded at how many professors are assigning projects around integrating AI into the classroom for both teacher and student use. I can't help but feel frustrated that time and energy that could be spent digging more into DAPs, pedagogy, or classroom management skills are instead going to planning out AI use. I don't know how much of this is pressure from the dept. head or the college admin, but it sure feels gimmicky in practice.
“The problem is that schools keep assigning tasks students would rather offload, and we've given them no compelling reason to do otherwise.” I’m sure that very many students would like to outsource much of the schoolWORK! which teachers set. Yes, it is work. Time to regain some reality about what schools are for… and to return to teaching foundational knowledge in as interesting and effective way as possible.
Thanks, Stephen, for your summary.